“…a "radical" in Gallatin County, Montana, is a little different from a radical somewhere else. "This was a college," I tell them, "where the wife of the president of the United States was actually banned because she was ‘too controversial.’ " [John Sutherland says].. "Who?" [Narrator replies].. "Eleanor Roosevelt." <= From Robert Pirsig’s ZMM.

Consequently, Eleanor Roosevelt’s, Address Sponsored by The Bozeman MT Chapter, of The United Nations Association, took place instead downtown in Gallatin County Public School’s Willson Auditorium, at 7:00 PM, May 20, 1958. (For more information, see the many Internet Links through-out this page below. ) By Henry Gurr, ZMMQ Site Master.

The ZMM Book Narrator, In Miles City, MT Tells us => Eating lunch in Miles City John Sutherland says => “They were talking in the bar about Bozeman, where we’re going. They said the governor of Montana had a list of fifty radical college professors at the college in Bozeman he was going to fire. Then he got killed in a plane crash. ([skip ahead) I didn’t know they had a lot of radicals in this state." .. "They’ve got all kinds of people in this state," I say. "But that was just right-wing politics." .. He says, "A Washington newspaper columnist came through and put it [the list] in his column yesterday, and that’s why they were all talking about it. The president of the college confirmed it." … "Did they print the list?" .. "I don’t know. Did you know any of them?" .. "If they had fifty names," I say, "mine must have been one. (skip ahead) I explain that a "radical" in Gallatin County, Montana, is a little different from a radical somewhere else. ..This was a college," I tell them, "where the wife of the president of the United States was actually banned because she was ‘too controversial.’ " .. "Who?" .. "Eleanor Roosevelt.” ]

The Photo Above Compliments Of YesMagazine. For Full Story Click Here.

To read Robert Pirsig’s “Montana Radicals Story”, go to ZMM Page 104.

My Memories of Hearing Eleanor Roosevelt’s, Address Sponsored by The Bozeman MT Chapter, of The United Nations Association. 7:00 PM, May 20, 1958. ----- See Also Tina DeWeese Memories of Bozeman’s Professor, Robert Dunbar Family, Near End of This Page.

By Dennis Gary, Graduate BS English, Montana State College, 1960; MS University of Oregon, 1964

I'm racking my memory as to what my contact with MSU History Professor Robert Dunbar was at the time, of his involvement in scheduling the Eleanor Roosevelt visit to our campus: My own personal timeline is a bit fuzzy on this. I rather suspect that I wasn't in one of his classes at the time but heard via the grapevine that Dunbar was holding an meeting on the subject of Eleanor Roosevelt's talk at a particular time in his frequently used classroom in the Montana Hall Annex, and I joined the crowd. Before going, I glanced at my watch and decided I could fit it in, hoping it wouldn't make me late to lunch at the Phi Sig house, in which I would be fined: Or if too late, lose what I had invested in meals at the house. At the time, I did not live there, since I was still commuting to our ranch near Gallatin Gateway. This is about 14 miles, on paved Highway 191 with maybe 2 miles on straight gravel road. So if I attended evening programs, I would sometimes stay overnight at the Sig House, especially if I had to be back on campus early in the morning.
INSTRUCTIONS: After this Google Street View comes up => Successively Click Drag the photo to left, will rotate to West View down West Koch St. Additional rotation, same way, will rotate to North View along Willson Ave, towards Main Street. This Google STREET VIEW, opens looking South at 398 S Willson Ave. The Summer Tree Shadows Tell It Is Midafternoon.

At that time our Phi Sigma Kappa fraternity house was located on South Willson Street, approx. 4 blocks South of Main. And at lunch there I mentioned to some of the brothers that I was thinking of going to Roosevelt's talk and several expressed interest in coming along: The debate then being whether to walk it or drive down. But would parking be difficult? Also, I knew I could never justify going to my parents and if it cost much to get in I'd have a problem. This is because, my parents, particularly my father, detested both Franklin and Eleanor Roosevelt. They were Taft Republicans -- who suspected that radical named Eisenhower! I certainly didn't want them to know about this. This disapproval, may be another thing that is suppressing my memory of “The Eleanor in Bozseman Events.”

More memories: Filling In The Details:

I recall taking my “History of Civilization” textbook, to the dinner table at the Phi Sig House, a frowned on thing to do (no studying at the dining room table), to show the brothers Eleanor's name in it!! Next suggesting that if one of them had the American History text, we could find even more there!! Sure enough, up got one of the brothers, sprinted up stairs and minutes later there it was. This turned out to be a very convincing way to get “the Bro’s” to go with me, to hear the First Lady’s talk: I took History of Civilization in my freshman year – 1956-1957, but American History my junior year, 1958-1959. So this event must have happened in the Spring Quarter of my sophomore year – 1958. [Editor’s note: Mr Gary’s memory of the talk date, is confirmed by the “Bozeman Chronicle Newspaper’s” article published at the time, giving date as 7:00 pm, May 20, 1958.]

One more note on rounding up some of my fraternity brothers to go hear Eleanor Roosevelt talk. I emphasized that not many times did a true celebrity come to Bozeman (era the 1950's) and here was a chance to see not only a celebrity but a woman who had actually made it into US and World History, witnessed by our current textbooks. Particularly interested in Mrs Roosevelt’s Talk were, peculiarly enough, Fraternity Brothers Bob and John Livingstone, who were actually from Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, and thus Canadian citizens. They were actually surprised when us natives would race to turn off the fraternity television set when at the end of the broadcast day: This was when the one TV Channel we had, would sign off with the "Star Spangled Banner": This happened, just as the Livingstone's were preparing to stand up in honor of this country's tradition of standing during the playing of the national anthem!! Hence their dismay at the lack of our respect for our own countries traditions!!

The one TV Channel, we could get, was headquartered in Butte, some 100 miles Northwest of Bozeman. We could get Butte, because it's transmitter was said to be "high above the Continental Divide." Back then, the Butte Station, would pick and chose broadcasts from ALL three networks, since this this one station, was the only way for the networks to reach much of Montana.

As I have noted elsewhere, I was the only one in my fraternity to know where the Willson Auditorium was and while I suggested we walk the four blocks down and four blocks over, the weather was not good and so one of the brother's volunteered to drive us down and if he could not find a parking spot simply drive back to the house, willing later if we called from a pay phone, to come back and pick us up. But parking proved not to be scarce. Evidently, since the auditorium was crowded, others (anticipating a parking problem) had arranged to walk or be dropped off. We did find a spot about a block away and I could guide my brothers over to the Auditorium to hear Eleanor Roosevelt.

Main Street at the time was a curious combination of parallel and angle parking, sometimes within the same block! (My grandparent's house was across Main Street facing the Willson Auditorium and on the corner opposite the Gallatin County Courthouse.)
[Editor’s Note: The 1100 seat Willson Auditorium is 4 blocks West of South (& North) Willson Avenue at 404 W. Main Street, Bozeman, MT 59715.

At any rate, we got there and I believe we found we would not be charged for admission. We were just waved in after showing our MSC student activity cards. As we shook our umbrellas and closed them. I was a bit surprised at the change in the auditorium since the days when I actually went to high school in that building. In the summer of 1957 the auditorium part of the building , had become Willson Auditorium, and the rest of the building (according to Dunbar), named Wilson Junior High School.

For Mrs. Roosevelt, there was a brief introduction by Dr. Dunbar, and Eleanor took to the podium: I can't remember her talk, but my impression was of a very radiant personality, one which loved life. people, working for the betterment of all mankind.

[Editor’s note: Since Professor Dunbar introduced Mrs Roosevelt, we surmise he must have been on the event organizational committee, which in turn would suggest he was in a leadership role, as a member of the local chapter of the United Nations Association. This may account for Professor Dunbar’s classroom (organizational?) meeting in Montana Hall Annex, that Mr Gary mentions above.]

Fred Willson was a well known Bozeman architect and, in fact, had designed the Willson Auditorium as part of the then Gallatin County High School. So, the name Willson is all over Bozeman, and carries the spelling of his name.

[Editor’s Note on correct spelling for Bozeman’s Willson Auditorium: Many WebPages, especially those “in the know for” Bozeman MT, show spelling => Willson: This is despite the fact that Wilson in Google gives 189,000,000 results. whereas Willson in Google ,give results 3,010,000.]

An interesting parallel:

Just as Robert Dunbar fought to get Eleanor Roosevelt a place to speak in Bozeman, Montana in the late 1950's, so Eleanor Roosevelt fought [US racial prejudice] to get Marian Anderson a place to give her concert when she was banned from giving one at Constitution Hall in 1939 by the DAR (Daughters of the American Revolution). Eleanor arranged to have the concert given from the foot of the Lincoln Memorial and simultaneously sent a letter to the DAR resigning her membership.

[Editor’s Note:. For a full discussion of this whole Marian Anderson situation, plus a Photo of Marion Anderson, plus a Photo-Copy of Mrs Roosevelt’s Resignation Letter, plus What she says about this, in her noteworthy “Eleanor Roosevelt 's My Day Column”: This ?weekly? newspaper column, turns out to be a good example of her thoughts, plans, & activities!! All Pure Eleanor !!! ]
http://docs.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/tmirhfee.html

[Another Editor’s Note:. For a full discussion of Mrs Roosevelt’s humanitarian work and her strong leadership as a direct influence on Politics, through her husband & President, Franklin Roosevelt. (Here also, is where we found the Photo for the top of this page.) All Pure Eleanor!!! This page starts off with a mini-biography of Mrs Roosevelt, and how she happened to meet Franklin, and early days with him.]

[More Editor;s thoughts: As you read this WebPage (link next below), you will get the distinct impression (as I’ve come to see), that Eleanor Roosevelt, herself, right straight from her heart, made a HUGE contribution, to the political career that Franklin Roosevelt was able to achieve!! In other words, each step of the way, Mrs Roosevelt, was guiding, coaching, recommending, insisting … on the VERY things that made Mr Roosevelt so successful. Eleanor was the Franklins Kitchen Cabinet ALL the way!!! Sincerely HSG.]
http://www.yesmagazine.org/peace-justice/eleanor-the-radical-roosevelt
END [HSG Editor’s Notes:]

After Eleanor Roosevelt's talk, we were directed to a reception at the Emerson School Auditorium, a building some distance away. To leave Willson, I guided my fraternity brothers down a back hallway of the, of my well-remembered, but no longer named Gallatin High, hoping that the rear entrance had not been secured. It had not. And so we stepped out into the driving rain and headed over West Babcock to the Emerson School. I was not very familiar with the building, but seeing where the crowd was headed made it easy. The line that had formed was long already, but seemed to be moving quickly, as people took turns greeting this remarkable lady -- 15 or 20 seconds it seemed. So soon enough, their I was, touching hands with this remarkable First Lady of the USA!! Hoping to exchanging a brief remark, I struggled to create a sentence or two, that would thought provoking, rather than expressing a mere pleasantry. I can’t remember what I said but she asked me my name and responded “Thank you, Dennis. I hadn't considered that point.”

That, and then it was back out into the wind driven rain. All of us, save the car driver, electing to head over West Babcock to South Willson Street, and the Phi Sig house as it was shorter than walking back to the car. And into a nice warm bed to luxuriate in this wonderful event. I then thought of writing our exchange on my hand while lying in bed but then got up to get a small piece of note paper. Who would have ever have expected that I'd have the chance to shake Eleanor Roosevelt's hand and exchange a remark or two as I got back in bed, drifting off to sleep in a world for me illuminated by the likes of Robert Dunbar.

The next day I transferred the note to a standard size of notebook paper and placed in an over growing binder of themes, term papers, English and History Department handouts. I lugged this binder from Bozeman, Montana, to Klamath Falls, Oregon, Redding, Sacramento, Visalia, and eventually San Francisco, California. Then one day while I was moving out of apartment in San Francisco under duress, I looked at the binder and thinking “I'll never do anything with this stuff, and tossed it down the garbage shut.

How's this for a memory, Henry? [Hey Dennis! Pretty darned good!!
…And seeing your typed words saying => “How's this for a memory” … In fact brings up a memory of my own => “Somewhere I read that seeing brings back memories”. Signed: HSG ]

MR GARY’S COMMENTS ON HENRY GURR’S REPLY EMAIL:
Referring to your email, I'm afraid that I can't remember with any certainty the brothers who came along. I do remember, that we had a car full, so it must have been up to 5-6 Phi Sigma Kappa Brothers, who went to Mrs. Roosevelt’s talk that night. I have the MSC yearbook for that time in my bookcase and will look at that, but doubt that looking at the photos will be a sufficient prod to my memory. At the time, we all commented all the huge amount of red on the Willson Auditorium’s Stage, This could have been “the red carpet treatment”, or the colors the event organizers had conveniently available. Although nothing political was said about this, I silently did only at this point, wonder about the possible political implications. But I decided not to mention the possibility to the brothers – to see if they would bring up that possibility. They did not.

I did daily commute from our ranch at that time, but could reserve a place at the Phi Sigma Kappa House for meals, being fined if I was a no-show. Again, assuming the space, I could spend the night at the house, if I wanted. –- I can't remember whether and what I had to pay for that, but I know my membership fees were less because I commuted.

I was elevated from pledge status to member status the Fall of 1957 and elected the house secretary Winter Quarter: At that time I believe I was elected to their leadership position of Fraternity Secretary: But when I failed to move into the house, which appears to have been the brothers' motive in electing me secretary, they felt I didn't know enough about what was going on to be a good secretary.

A classmate of mine, Stanley Jones, from Gallatin High was well known for his comic monologs, and at the brothers request I got him perform at the House one night. (For an agreed upon dollar pay.) The Comic Show was great, with good laughter, and applause at end: BUT: At the end of his show, the treasurer appeared, but instead of paying him the fee, Stanley was offered a free membership in the house. Stanley was obviously growing angry, so I stepped forward and paid him out of my own pocket, walking him out of the house and apologizing to a disconcerted Stanley who made clear he had desire to belong to a fraternity.

When back into the house I demanded and got the amount I had paid Stanley. While the treasurer reimbursed me, the brothers informed me that the purpose of the invitation was to get him to join the fraternity. However, they should have talked me first, because I knew that fraternities were not Stanley's thing. This would have saved lots of ill-will and anger.

A Follow-Up Email, By Dennis Gary, After Reading Tina DeWeese’s Essay Below:

Henry

I do hope that Tina's remarks on the Dunbar Family, can be included on our New Dunbar WebPage, on ZMMQ Site: I say this, although I realize it would also fit well on her own ZMMQ page… but … It does seem that I keep on turning up characters who were in the DeWeese circle. As Tina would say, "Connect the dots."

I can also recall when driving around Bozeman, while at MSC, crossing through a residential neighborhood and seeing a couple of young people on a horse or horses and wondering about, it since it was not the week of the rodeo, and they were several miles from any ranch.

Dennis

Tina DeWeese, In Response To Reading Dennis Gary’s “Professor Dunbar Memories”, Shares Her Own Memories Of Her Parent’s Friends & Associates of the 1950’s and Early 1960’s ”:

''' Tina DeWeese’s Following Spontaneous Flow Of Consciousness, Turns Out To Be An Email Essay On Dr. Dunbar, His Family, And How They Relate To The Lives Of Tina’s Folks, Robert & Gennie DeWeese, Of The ZMM Book!

What Ms. DeWeese says, gives a nice (indeed a wonderful idyllic view), into Bozeman, MT life & culture, in the 1950’s and early 60’s. Her words intrigue our imagination (such as ride horses to piano lessons), as well as expand what ZMM Author Robert Pirsig tells us about MSU and Bozeman in these times.

ZMM Enthusiasts World Wide greatly appreciate, the tapestry efforts, of both Ms. Tina DeWeese & Mr. Dennis Gary, since they round-out our understanding of the persons and places introduced to us by Robert Pirsig, in his book “Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance” Here, Ms. DeWeese & Mr. Gary, give us facts & data, about persons and events, that corroborate, support, and amplify what Pirsig has told us in ZMM and other places!!
…Below is Tina DeWeese’s email =>

Henry,

Like yourself, seems to get too busy to take the time to respond to A LOT of things along the way, but want to mention that these folks you keep uncovering…are all a part of the community I grew up with. … Bob Dunbar was an associate of my folks, not much of a partier and don't think he drank their "home brew" among those who gathered at the "Studio"… but his wife, Mary was our piano teacher.

Of the four of us DeWeese kids, my brother Jan was the only one to really see that piano training to fruition: He taught music in his home in Portland for 30 years, now…and is fundamentally an ethnomusicologist. My youngest brother, Josh, also plays guitar quite well…and was also a student of Mary’s when he was very young.

And their daughter, Ann was a major presence in our youth, one of the originators of the children's theater, of which we were all a part through the Theater Dept at MSU in the 1950’s and early 60’s. Ann was also partner with our ballet teacher, Harvey Jung, (pronounced with a “J”), a Broadway NY dancer who befriended our family through the late 50’s and 60’s. Our ballet lessons, like everything else in those days, happened in the hub of Dad's studio downtown. My two sisters and I together with our friends and neighbors, the Overlie girls, were his motley entourage of students. Most of us were far more interested in horses than in dance. Mary Overlie, my sister Cathie’s closest friend, was the only one of us wanna-be dancers who carried that training to fruition. Running off to New York, when she was 17, under the influence of her teacher and mentor, Harvey Jung, she was serious... and her passion evolved into a lifelong career, becoming internationally recognized for her work as a choreographer and teacher of post modern dance. Teaching for 30 years at NYU, she is known for her work, soon to be published as The Six Viewpoints, foundation of her theory of postmodern theater and dance. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Overlie .
EDITOR’S SMALL CORRECTION: Still a teenager, age 17, Mary would leave the arts community of Bozeman for the wider world by hitching a ride on a freight train to California, with fifty dollars in her pocket in 1962.

Ann was also contemporary with Lynn Dusenberry, daughter of the anthropologist that Pirsig speaks so highly and so fondly of in LILA. Because they were both associated with the MSU Theater through that period, I’m sure they knew one another; whether they were closely associated or friends, I don’t recall.

Henry: I am sure you’ve googled up =>
A) This Wikipedia page, on Vern Dusenberry, Click Here.
This Montan State University page, on Vern Dusenberry, Click Here.

To follow the dots of association…Lynn Dusenberry was also very close friends with a group of women that my sister Cathie came to know, from her summers in the mid-late 60’s as an actress with the Virginia City Players. Willy Williams, now internationally recognized jazz vocalist, and Nan Parsons, http://nanparsonsart.net/newwork.html, student of my father in the 60’s who continues to paint and was one of the founding members, together with Willy Williams, of the longtime Artist Refuge, an international artist retreat in Basin, Montana. Click Here..Both Willy and Nan among several other Basin women, became lifelong friends of our family and we stay in touch as we can.

ALL these folks were connected. …
... Bozeman was a small town back then! My sister Gretchen and I would on occasion ride our horse Moccasin…to Mary's Dunbar’s house for lessons. When one of us was plinking away on the piano, the other would be riding around the neighborhood, waiting our turn …actually a bit of a distraction to whoever was at the key board, as being on the back of the horse was the preferred place to be for we two tom-boys! We wanted in the worst way to be cowboys…so both of us married them! So that would be Tom Thornton, who's a painter now, and Barry who ran a dude ranch with [my sister] Gretchen for 15 years in Arizona and is a Presbyterian preacher now. Interesting twists and turns!
EXPLANATION: Moccasin is the buckskin colored horse in the picture of my Dad, Josh and Chris. To see a photo of this horse, in Main Menu at left, scroll up a bit till you see the Small Photo labeled Author Robert Pirsig’s Own 12 Color Photos, ChickOnIt and once the 5 Albums Page cmes up ClickOn ''Pictures From Robert Pirsig's Original 1968 Trip”, and when the 9 Small Photos Page comes up,ClickOn the 9th Small Photo.)

One more note…When my mother died, I received a very heart full condolence from Ann Dunbar, in which she mentioned the sourdough from my mother that she still kept in her fridge. I wrote her back and asked if she could send us some, as my mother's sourdough had petered out a few years back. So she DID! I received a box in the mail that was quite soggy, but fortunately the top of the plastic container had been taped on, and although it expanded and seeped, there was enough in the container to feed and renew. It's the sourdough that we fed you when you were here Henry, and remains our company breakfast to this day.
[Henry Reply => Yes!! Well remembered!!! With blueberries!!!! ]

Follow the dots!

Xtina

EDITOR’S NOTE: Ann Dunbar also happen to be one of Dennis Gary’s Class of 1956 Gallatin High School Classmates!! Mr Gary has been in email contact with Ms Dunbar & especially also Kay Gossack Campeau, who are actively planning their mutual 58th Year Class Reunion, scheduled for Summer 2014!! The “Full Circle” Continues!! HSG 3 March 2014.

ANOTHER EDITOR’S NOTE: Click here for more on
WHY Is ZMM Travel Descript So VERY Factually Accurate?

We Are Saddened To Report That Robert Dennis Gary Passed Away In Jan 9, 2020, Likely From Covid19. You May Read About His Life => A Robert Dennis Gary Memorial Tribute Page & Autobiography : ALSO PLEASE SEND EMAIL To HenryG__USCA.edu With Your Memories Of Dennis. Click Here.

Additional Links To Our Research Findings Concerning Montana State University's Relation To ZMM Book: (For Other Topics, Please Consult The Main Menu At Left:)

Dennis Gary’s Student Memories of His Favorite: Prof Sarah Vinki, AND Other Memories & Events At Montana State College MSC 1958-63 As Follows =>

• ’‘The Professor Sarah Vinke Of My Student Days’‘
• Dennis Gary’s: ‘‘Following My Mentor => Prof Sarah Vinke”
• Dennis Gary’s ‘‘Following My Values: School & Career”
• Dennis Gary’s ‘‘Memories of His Professor Dunbar & How MSC ->

Historical Research At Montana State University Re ZMM. (For Other Topics, Please Consult The Main Menu At Left:)
A) 1959-61 MONTANA STATE COLLEGE: ORIGINS OF ROBERT PIRSIG’S MOQ

• Historical Research At Montana State University Re ZMM
• A) 1959-61 Montana State College: Origins Of R Pirsig’s MOQ

B) MSC ENGLISH: SARAH VINKI’S ‘‘ARE YOU TEACHING QUALITY?” ]]

• MSC English: Sarah Vinki’s ‘‘Are You Teaching Quality?”
• Robert Pirsig’s Memoir (DVD Transcribed): ‘‘The Divine Sarah!!”
• Sarah Vinke Published Article “Books I’ve Enjoyed.”
• H Gurr & D Gary’s Commentary Re SV’s “Books I’ve Enjoyed”.
• Sarah Vinke Pub’sh Article ‘‘Speech Class Self Criticism”.
• Letters & Memories Fm Bozeman MT: SarahVinke &ShirlyLuhrsen
• Information & Bio From MSU Archives Re Vinke Pirsig & Others
• Gurr & Gary Commentary: MSU Archive Vinki Pirsig Etc
• TimeLine: Sarah Vinke & Shirley Luhrsen?
• Research ZMM History Timeline & MOQ?
• Vinke > Pirsig > Origins: Quality & MOQ?
  • A Young Montana Cowboy's View of RobertPirsig’s English Class

Written by Dennis Gary with Editing by Henry S Gurr 4 March 2014. RevHSG28Oct23.

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