Saturday, July 20, 2024: … At The ZMM Narrator’s “Turnout” This Sign Gives A Bit Of Interesting History, And Where The Name Colgate Came From.

The ZMM Narrator says, concerning Traditional Science Practice =>
…” We should keep our mind a blank tablet which nature fills for us, and then reason disinterestedly from the facts we observe.
…But when we stop and think about it disinterestedly, in terms of this stuck screw, we begin to see that this whole idea of disinterested observation is silly. Where are those facts? What are we going to observe disinterestedly? The torn slot? The immovable side cover plate? The color of the paint job? The speedometer? The sissy bar? As Poincaré would have said, there are an infinite number of facts about the motorcycle, and the right ones don’t just dance up and introduce themselves. The right facts, the ones we really need, are not only passive, they are damned elusive, and we’re not going to just sit back and "observe" them. We’re going to have to be in there looking for them or we’re going to be here a long time. Forever. As Poincaré pointed out, there must be a subliminal choice of what facts we observe.
…The difference between a good mechanic and a bad one, like the difference between a good mathematician and a bad one, is precisely this ability to select the good facts from the bad ones on the basis of quality. He has to care! This is an ability about which formal traditional scientific method has nothing to say. It’s long past time to take a closer look at this qualitative preselection of facts which has seemed so scrupulously ignored by those who make so much of these facts after they are "observed." I think that it will be found that a formal acknowledgment of the role of Quality in the scientific process doesn’t destroy the empirical vision at all. It expands it, strengthens it and brings it far closer to actual scientific practice.
…I think the basic fault that underlies the problem of stuckness is traditional rationality’s insistence upon "objectivity," a doctrine that there is a divided reality of subject and object. For true science to take place these must be rigidly separate from each other. "You are the mechanic. There is the motorcycle. You are forever apart from one another. You do this to it. You do that to it. These will be the results."
This eternally dualistic subject-object way of approaching the motorcycle sounds right to us because we’re used to it. But it’s not right. ” [Bold by HSG.] (Cont. Next Photo)

Colgate Lick Turnoff Rest Area, Lochsa River Canyon, ID.

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Saturday, July 20, 2024: … At The ZMM Narrator’s “Turnout” There Is Interesting Information For The ZMM Traveler.
…Here We Learn About The Lodgepole Pine Tree, Ahd How The Forest Can & Must Survive Fire.

The ZMM Narrator says =>
…”[This eternally dualistic subject-object way of approaching the motorcycle sounds right to us because we’re used to it. But it’s not right.]
..]] It’s always been an artificial interpretation superimposed on reality. It’s never been reality itself. When this duality is completely accepted a certain nondivided relationship between the mechanic and motorcycle, a craftsmanlike feeling for the work, is destroyed. When traditional rationality divides the world into subjects and objects it shuts out Quality, and when you’re really stuck it’s Quality, not any subjects or objects, that tells you where you ought to go.
…By returning our attention to Quality it is hoped that we can get technological work out of the noncaring subject-object dualism and back into craftsmanlike self-involved reality again, which will reveal to us the facts we need when we are stuck.
…In my mind now is an image of a huge, long railroad train, one of those 120-boxcar jobs that cross the prairies all the time with lumber and vegetables going east and with automobiles and other manufactured goods going west. I want to call this railroad train "knowledge" and subdivide in into two parts: Classic Knowledge and Romantic Knowledge.
…In terms of the analogy, Classic Knowledge, the knowledge taught by the Church of Reason, is the engine and all the boxcars. All of them and everything that’s in them. If you subdivide the train into parts you will find no Romantic Knowledge anywhere. And unless you’re careful it’s easy to make the presumption that’s all the train there is. This isn’t because Romantic Knowledge is nonexistent or even unimportant. It’s just that so far the definition of the train is static and purposeless. [[Polanyi agree, but need research.]] This was what I was trying to get at back in South Dakota when I talked about two whole dimensions of existence. It’s two whole ways of looking at the train. ” (Cont. Next Photo)

Colgate Lick Turnoff Rest Area, Lochsa River Canyon, ID.

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Saturday, July 20, 2024: … This White Flowering Shrub Is Seen, By The Mocus Point Trail, That Goes Down To The Lochsa River,

Mocus Point Trailhead, US-12, Lochsa River Canyon, ID.

EXLANATION:
…After leaving Colgate Lick, David Matos and Henry Gurr continued driving Southwest along US-12, enjoying the scenery of the Lochsa River Canyon. After some 8 miles, we saw a sign for Mocus Point Trailhead, so we stopped to investigate. The next 4 photos show what we saw along the trail.
…And the 5th next photo shows the Lochsa River, and a Trail Bridge over the river, which we were surprised to see. .
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b>Saturday, July 20, 2024: … This Closer View Of The Previous Photo Of A White Flowering Shrub, Is Seen By The Mocus Point Trail, That Goes Down To The Lochsa River,

Mocus Point Trailhead, US-12, Lochsa River Canyon, ID.
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Saturday, July 20, 2024: … This Close Up View Of The White Flowering Shrub Is Seen By The Mocus Point Trail, That Goes Down To The Lochsa River.

Mocus Point Trailhead, US-12, Lochsa River Canyon, ID.
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Saturday, July 20, 2024: … We Saw This Red Berry Shrub, Several Feet Away From The Previous Photo’s White Flowering Shrub, By The Mocus Point Trail, That Goes Down To The Lochsa River.

Mocus Point Trailhead, US-12, Lochsa River Canyon, ID.
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Saturday, July 20, 2024: … A Panorama View Over The Lochsa River, From The Center Of A Suspension Bridge.
…At The Panorama’s Left End, To Left Of The Water, You Can See The Straight Line Of The Highway, And Above See How Steep & Deep Is This River’s Canyon Here.

Google AI Finds This =>
…The distance from Colgate Lick Turnout, to the Mocus Point Trailhead & Bridge, is approximately 9 miles West by river, and it's considered a beginner whitewater run on the Lochsa River, starting near the Colgate dispersed camping area and ending around the Mocus Point Pack Bridge area.

ABOVE PHOTO VIEWING NOTE =>
…In The Above Panorama, yours truly did not take enough Photos Before & After The Suspension Bridge. As a result the parts of the Side Rails Of The Bridge are not all there. But despite this, you can still feel the essence of what it is like to be here looking over the river’s charging rapids!

Mocus Point Trailhead, US-12, Lochsa River Canyon, ID.
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Saturday, July 20, 2024: … Mocus Point Trailhead.
…”Fourty-six miles northeast of Lowell, at milepost 143 along the Northwest Passage Scenic Byway and All American Road (US Highway 12), visitors can witness the magnificent Mocus Point Suspension Bridge [and Nature Trail] leading into the Selway Bitterroot Wilderness across the Lochsa River. Spacious parking, hitchrails, stock ramps and a restroom provide for a comfortable unloading zone whether you are stopped for a break from your drive or preparing for a long pack trip into the wilderness.”
… This National Forest WebPage has a map showing how to get here, and surrounding area. Click Here.

The Lochsa River Is Wild And Remote. August 7, 2022.
…”The Lochsa River is wild and remote. After Lewis and Clark crossed Lolo Pass they continued westward (generally) following the Lochsa River. The Lochsa River headwaters start north of Lolo Pass flowing to the west. On both the north and the south banks of the Lochsa River there is a dense forest. When Lewis and Clark followed the trail it was only a path used only by Native Americans and wild animals. The Lewis and Clark route was 160 miles long.”
… This Forest Travel WebPage has 13 good large photos, several of which show this Bridge, and The River & the Mountains. Click Here.

Lochsa River Historic Trail, USDA Forest Service Backcountry Trail.
… This National Forest WebPage has a map showing how to get here, and surrounding area. And 3 photos, one of which in the Lochsa Historical Ranger Station. Click Here.

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Saturday, July 20, 2024: … We See These Curious Looking Plants, That Are Similar to Swamp Cattails, By The Mocus Point Trail, On The Way Back From The Lochsa River.

Mocus Point Trailhead, US-12, Lochsa River Canyon, ID.
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Saturday, July 20, 2024: … We See These Curious Looking Small Tree Growing Up Through The Brush, By The Mocus Point Trail, On The Way Back From The Lochsa River.

Mocus Point Trailhead, US-12, Lochsa River Canyon, ID.
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Saturday, July 20, 2024: … We See These Flowers Simiiar To A Daisy, That Are Surviving In The Dry Dirt, By The Parking Lot, Of The Mocus Point Trail, After We Get Back From The Lochsa River.

Mocus Point Trailhead, US-12, Lochsa River Canyon, ID.
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We Return Briefly To Civilization. Note Two Horses In Front of the Buildings.

….“But when we stop and think about it disinterestedly, in terms of this stuck screw, we begin to see that this whole idea of disinterested observation is silly. Where are those facts? What are we going to observe disinterestedly? The torn slot? The immovable side cover plate? The color of the paint job? The speedometer? The sissy bar? As Poincaré would have said, there are an infinite number of facts about the motorcycle, and the right ones don’t just dance up and introduce themselves. The right facts, the ones we really need, are not only passive, they are damned elusive, and we’re not going to just sit back and "observe" them. We’re going to have to be in there looking for them or we’re going to be here a long time. Forever. As Poincaré pointed out, there must be a subliminal choice of what facts we observe.” (Cont. Next)

Lochsa River Canyon and Entrance to Lowell, ID.
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To Build Any Science, For Example The Biology of These Very Complex Plants, What Facts Do You Choose?

….“The difference between a good mechanic and a bad one, like the difference between a good mathematician and a bad one, is precisely this ability to select the good facts from the bad ones on the basis of quality. He has to care! This is an ability about which formal traditional scientific method has nothing to say. It’s long past time to take a closer look at this qualitative preselection of facts which has seemed so scrupulously ignored by those who make so much of these facts after they are "observed." I think that it will be found that a formal acknowledgment of the role of Quality in the scientific process doesn’t destroy the empirical vision at all. It expands it, strengthens it and brings it far closer to actual scientific practice.” (Cont. Next)

Lochsa River Canyon, Huge Parking Lot South of Lowell, ID. This above ZMM passage is indeed an EXCELLENT summary of the processes of ALL sciences, and well indicates one of the many reasons Why I Requested My Physics Students Read ZMM.
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Craftsmanship Is Destroyed By The So Called “Objectivity”, AND Other Wrongly Conceived Science Practices.

….“I think the basic fault that underlies the problem of stuckness is traditional rationality’s insistence upon "objectivity," a doctrine that there is a divided reality of subject and object. .“ [Some persons wrongly conceive that ] “For true science to take place these must be rigidly separate from each other. "You are the mechanic. There is the motorcycle. You are forever apart from one another. You do this to it. You do that to it. These will be the results."
.. This eternally dualistic subject-object way of approaching the motorcycle sounds right to us because we’re used to it.
…… But it’s not right. It’s always been an artificial interpretation SUPERIMPOSED on reality. It’s never been reality itself.
….When this duality is completely accepted a certain nondivided relationship between the mechanic and motorcycle, a craftsmanlike feeling for the work, is destroyed. When traditional rationality divides the world into subjects and objects it shuts out Quality, and when you’re really stuck it’s Quality, not any subjects or objects, that tells you where you ought to go.
.... By returning our attention to Quality it is hoped that we can get technological work out of the non-caring subject-object dualism and back into craftsmanlike self-involved reality again, which will reveal to us the facts we need when we are stuck.” (Cont. Next)
…. NOTE: The next up BOLDED by ZMMQuality Editors for special emphasis. Also since word “superimposed” is already italicized in the ZMM text, we used UPPER CASE LETTERING to communicate additional emphasis, you see above.

Lochsa River Canyon, Huge Parking Lot South of Lowell, ID.
….Notice the FOUR uses of word “Reality” in the ZMM passage above. … This (as discussed in the ~20 & 21th previous photo), is one of the 83 times the “reality” word is used by Author Robert Pirsig, in his book “Zen And The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance”.
…THUS, This Whole “Reality” Topic Is Important Enough To Have Its Own ZMMQ Page => Click Here For => .“Author Robert Pirsig’s Major Thread Topic => “Quality, Reality, & “Good Old Reality”
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My Cutting Edge of Reality Encountered This Lush Vegetation by the Lochsa River.
….AND, My “Track Of Quality” Response Was, To Take (And Post Here) The Four Photos You Have Just Seen.

….Here The ZMM Narrator Continues With => This Exceedingly Important Analogy =>
…… A Huge Long Railroad Train, On The Track Of Quality!
….“Romantic Quality, in terms of this analogy, isn’t any "part" of the train. It’s the leading edge of the engine, a two-dimensional surface of no real significance unless you understand that the train isn’t a static entity at all. A train really isn’t a train if it can’t go anywhere. In the process of examining the train and subdividing it into parts we’ve inadvertently stopped it, so that it really isn’t a train we are examining. That’s why we get stuck. .. The real train of knowledge isn’t a static entity that can be stopped and subdivided. It’s always going somewhere. On a track called Quality. And that engine and all those 120 boxcars are never going anywhere except where the track of Quality takes them; and romantic Quality, the leading edge of the engine, takes them along that track.” (Cont. Next)

Lochsa River Canyon, Huge Parking Lot South of Lowell, ID.
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These Whitewater Voyagers Must, Second By Second,
….React to Their OWN OnComing => “Cutting Edge of Reality”.

….“Romantic reality is the cutting edge of experience. It’s the leading edge of the train of knowledge that keeps the whole train on the track. Traditional knowledge is only the collective memory of where that leading edge has been. At the leading edge there are no subjects, no objects, only the track of Quality ahead, and if you have no formal way of evaluating, no way of acknowledging this Quality, then the entire train has no way of knowing where to go. You don’t have pure reason—you have pure confusion.
….The leading edge [of reality] is where absolutely all the action is. The leading edge contains all the infinite possibilities of the future. It contains all the history of the past. Where else could they be contained? ” (Cont. Next)
…. NOTE: The above BOLDED appears in the ZMM Book, was done by Editors for special emphasis.

Whitewater Lochsa River Canyon, ID.

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Standing On This Riverbank, I Was On My OWN “Quality Track” In Responding To My Preintellectual Awareness. =>
…My Resulting Intellectual Awareness Said, “Right Now, Press the Shutter Button”.
…..Likewise, the People In This Raft, Pull Their Paddles =>
……..RIGHT NOW, In Response To Their Preintellectual & Intellectual Awareness.

….“The past cannot remember the past. The future can’t generate the future. The cutting edge of this instant right here and now is always nothing less than the totality of everything there is. .. Value, the leading edge of reality, is no longer an irrelevant offshoot of structure. Value is the predecessor of structure. It’s the preintellectual awareness that gives rise to it. Our structured reality is preselected on the basis of value, and really to understand structured reality requires an understanding of the value source from which it’s derived.” (Cont. Next)

Whitewater Lochsa River Canyon, ID. In the above ZMM passage the idea of Preintellectual Awareness , likely comes partly from Author Robert Pirsig’s understanding of Philosopher F. S. C .Northrop's idea of "Undifferentiated Aesthetic Continuum", which is explained in Northrop’s book “The Meeting of East and West”. To Read More Click Here.
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In This Pontoon Boat, the Captain’s Understanding of the River,
…. Is Modified From Second To Second, As He And His Crew Work Their Paddles!

….“One’s rational understanding of a motorcycle is therefore modified from minute to minute as one works on it …. ” (Cont. Next)

Whitewater Lochsa River Canyon, ID.
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Reality Is, In Part, a Set of Ideas That Are “Dynamic” , And Are Expected To Grow In Our Response To “The Cutting Edge Reality” , Century After Century.

….“…. and sees that a new and different rational understanding has more Quality. One doesn’t cling to old sticky ideas because one has an immediate rational basis for rejecting them. Reality isn’t static anymore. It’s not a set of ideas you have to either fight or resign yourself to. It’s made up, in part, of ideas that are expected to grow as you grow, and as we all grow, century after century. With Quality as a central undefined term, reality is, in its essential nature, not static but dynamic. And when you really understand dynamic reality you never get stuck. It has forms but the forms are capable of change.” (Cont. Next)

Whitewater Lochsa River Canyon, ID.
….Notice again the Narrator’s three uses of “reality”, and how “second by second”, “minute by minute” & “century after century” our “reality” grows, in response to the action of Quality!

NOTE: Here, and on the previous 4 photographs, the ZMM Narrator keeps expanding on his “Reality” Topic; These ideas will be eventually added to ZMMQ Page => Click Here For => .“Author Robert Pirsig’s Major Thread Topic => “Quality, Reality, & “Good Old Reality”
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